Well I took my CCT exam on the 6th and I passed. I don't really think anything else will change except now if and when I finally get a company card I can slap ASQ Certified Calibration Technician on it. As it is right now the only thing that changes is my email sig.
I personally didn't find it to difficult. I studied for probably 30 mins total. I think it's just because I've been doing it for a while now. Personally when I was in the Marines and became a CDI the test over the 4790 was more of a pain. Nobody ever studied for that, but the 4790 covered everything in the MALS so trying to find anything was a hassle.
Congrats to anyone else that took it and passed.
I hope you had the good sense to have someone else pay for it...
I will be eternally grateful to Goodrich for mine...I would have been pissed to have chucked that kind of money away for something as useful as the CCT...
Congratulations!!!!!!!
Yeah my company is going to reimburse me and then I still get to double bit with the VA. So hurray for the CCT because I'm going to make some money.
Congratulations!
Quote from: Kalrock on 06-15-2009 -- 12:42:14
Yeah my company is going to reimburse me and then I still get to double bit with the VA. So hurray for the CCT because I'm going to make some money.
Gotta love the VA.
Congrats, it does make for an interesting conversation piece on a business card. You'll soon get the cool CCT coin...another benefit from ASQ
Kalrock,
I don't mean to burst your bubble but that ASQ CCT isn't going to mean a hill of beans like you think it will, so I would put off any extravagant purchases. Air Force PMEL experience reigns supreme in the world of calibration and it always will. ASQ CCT is the PMEL equivalent of a bush league pinch hitter, not quite ready for the big leagues. It may get you a sniff at your local commercial cal lab, but like I said, there's no money in that. I'm not saying it's by any means fair, but that's the way it is. If you've got PMEL experience, you get to punch your own ticket. You can virtually work anywhere you want. It definitely opens doors that your CCT never will. Don't get too discouraged though, someone may be willing to take a flyer on you because you won't be able to command a hefty salary. You can always get your foot in the door of a good job that way and hope to wow them from there.
Quote from: Duckbutta on 06-15-2009 -- 22:20:49
Kalrock,
I don't mean to burst your bubble but that ASQ CCT isn't going to mean a hill of beans like you think it will...
Two different things Duck. One's a school/training, one's a professional certification. Neither is meant to replace the other, the CCT is like icing on the PMEL cake. This is the one we've got, unless you know of a more appropriate civilian certification. Perhaps, like me, Kalrock has both. It never hurts to expand yor horizons.
Please let us know if you do know of a better cert, but as far as I can tell from your postings, you've never worked anywhere but a government lab so I'd take your advice on commercial labs with a grain of salt. So far I've made pretty good money working for them.
P.S. Would it kill you to congratulate the kid?
Quote from: Duckbutta on 06-15-2009 -- 22:20:49
I don't mean to burst your bubble but that ASQ CCT isn't going to mean a hill of beans like you think it will, so I would put off any extravagant purchases. Air Force PMEL experience reigns supreme in the world of calibration and it always will.
Duckbutta,
Your pretty funny. I've read a lot of your post in the forum and you always have something interesting to say. Sometimes I think your right and other times I think your wrong and that's just the way it is. I do for the most part think you are a little over the top on a lot of things, but whatever. I've never thought the CCT was anything more than another way to show people that I know what I'm doing.
As far as your other statement goes, that is fine if you think that, but it really is hilarious. School doesn't make a person smart or knowledgeable, a person has to do that themselves. School is just a tool some people use it others don't. It is just a way, like the CCT, to say "Hey look I have a certificate. These people recognized my abilities."
I don't go to college because I feel like I really need it. I go to college because it will give others justification to hire me. The CCT is the same. Like Griff said there is nothing wrong with having both. I made $155 to take the test so it really only cost me 3 hours of my time.
Keep posting Duckbutta I really do enjoy reading what you have to say.
How many times have we run across someone with the education to be an outstanding tech, but when it comes down too it they are useless (all the knowledge and not the practical ability or competence). A good resume and the fact that you've been employed by the same company for a long time will probably count more than the CCT on its own. However I have seen a company ask specifically for that qual as a discrimator for hiring, mind you knowing the company and its operating location they more than likely wrote the position for the person that they already wanted to hire.
As for me I'll stick with the certificates from all the courses I attended in the Air Force and my experience over the last 25 years rather than the CCT as it seems to have worked well so far.
How many times have we run across someone with the education to be an outstanding tech, but when it comes down too it they are useless
Limey,
i see your point about a certificate from PMEL school , but why not get the certificate? if they gave you an associates for finishing cal school would you take it or say "these certificates are all i need"? As for calrock, congrats and semper fi!
I put the ASQ CCT right up there with all the "feather in your cap" certificates you get at computer schools (Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (MCSE), A+, Novell, etc.) Sure, they look good on resume's and office walls, but when it comes down to it, time spent at the bench or in the field carries more impact than time spent taking tests.
FWIW, I haven't taken the CCT, but I've collected enough certificates from courses taken at NCSL conferences (with more to come) and others from manufacturer training on their product lines to wallpaper the wall over my desk and bench, but the only two I have that really count are my Honorable Discharge from the Army, and Bachelor's Degree in Electrical Engineering from college.
Our management has told us that passing the CCT is worth a payraise, since it shows committment and dedication and so forth, and might even reimburse the cost to take the test, but basically stopped short of requiring it, because there is no industry mandate for it, like having to pass a periodic review board or having a license in order to maintain professional status or accreditation (like a lawyer or a doctor or even a barber, for that matter).
I have to say I agree with scottbp. I happen to have a CCT, but it probably isn't as usefull as my PMEL schooling and experience. Having said that, I don't regret getting it.
I'ts just a recognition of accomplishment. Simple as that. Someday it may be worth something, maybe not, but I'm proud to have it just the same.
Way to go Kalrock! If nothing else, we'll start a club. Maybe a secret handshake. :-)
Did you get the coin yet?
We did a very unofficial poll on a hand full of local companies about CCT. From small mom and pop calibration lab to large aerospace labs. They all pretty much agreed..
1) They would pay / reimburse a technician for taking and passing the CCT Test.
2) However they would not increase / pay a technician more for having a CCT certificate.
I concluded having a CCT may give bragging rights, and with all things being equal it may help get you hired over the other technician who does not have the CCT..
ASQ CCT will never trump Air Force PMEL experience. Period. In fact, at the lab where I work, you wouldn't even be considered for a job without military calibration experience. They tried it a few times because experienced PMEL techs are in short supply, and it just didn't work out. Now, they would rather have an open slot than fill it with someone who doesn't fit the criteria. ASQ CCT is a vehicle for electronics techs with no real metrology credentials to give them an air of legitimacy. There is no way that I would be half the technician that I am today without the benefit of working in an Air Force PMEL lab. You don't experience the same rate of technical growth in the commercial sector because the luxury of time needed to really understand what you are doing is limited. As someone said in a previous post, there is a HUGE difference between a Cal Tech and a Metrologist. I've worked for two different commercial calibration companies, and on the whole, the people with prior PMEL experience were definitely a cut above those without. Of course there are exceptions, but in general, I think most people on here will agree with my take on it.
Quote from: Duckbutta on 06-17-2009 -- 23:25:01
ASQ CCT will never trump Air Force PMEL experience. Period. In fact, at the lab where I work, you wouldn't even be considered for a job without military calibration experience. They tried it a few times because experienced PMEL techs are in short supply, and it just didn't work out. Now, they would rather have an open slot than fill it with someone who doesn't fit the criteria. ASQ CCT is a vehicle for electronics techs with no real metrology credentials to give them an air of legitimacy. There is no way that I would be half the technician that I am today without the benefit of working in an Air Force PMEL lab. You don't experience the same rate of technical growth in the commercial sector because the luxury of time needed to really understand what you are doing is in short supply. As someone said in a previous post, there is a HUGE difference between a Cal Tech and a Metrologist. I've worked for two different commercial calibration companies, and on the whole, the people with prior PMEL experience were definitely a cut above those without. Of course there are exceptions, but in general, I think most people on here will agree with my take on it.
Have you taken the CCT?
No, Griff, I haven't. Nor will I ever, just on principle. I don't need it.
Me being an ex-Army tech with 10 years of military OJT, I agree there is no training like the military training for metrology.
However.. I believe the military did a very good job of selecting the people where qualified to be metrologists. By and far the people who went through the training in the military where smarter than most. I can count on one hand the number of people in the field I meet who were knuckle heads. (and they were smart knuckle heads, just no common sense).
I believe this to be true because the military invested millions in the ASVAB test. And the test did an excellent job of vetting the people who where not qualified. When I came in the field the cut off General Technology (GT) score to be a metrologist was 125 while officer only needed a 110.
It would be great if we as employers could say.. Go take the ASVAB test and let me see your scores..
I wouldn't trade my PMEL training for anything. Best thing to happen to this ol country boy. Lowry graduate 1982. That training opened a lot of doors for me that otherwise, would have remained closed.
I am a Lowry graduate of 1985. Have worked for the Navy - 12 years military, Army - 2. 5 yrs on Kwajalein, Air Force - 5 yrs contract & civil service, . 5 years Intercal writing automation procedures, 2. 5 years Royal Saudi Air Force. 1. 5 years commercial cal.
My company (USAF - DOD) got us a one week ASQ CCT refresher course to attend. While it was ok, it was no where near anything compared to the knowledge I have gain while going to Cal School at lowry or the experience I have gained while in the field.
Seriously, it was mostly about who is the governing body for this and stuff that is not really needed in the field.
One of our QAs was qualified and he thought it was great. Well. . . the ASQ CCT should NEVER trump Formal Military Calibration training, nor should it outweigh Experience.
My two Cents.
Mojo out!
I agree that the CCT will never and should never replace actual experience. It will never trump military school. If I was a manager it wouldn't even be a question if one guy had 5 years military PMEL experience and another just had the CCT. The military experience will always be better. But having said that if a I want a senior tech and both applicants have roughly the same experience, but one has the CCT "in their hat" then it will probably give them a one up if both interview about the same. I loved the Marine Corp and I regret to this day getting out. They gave me one of the best jobs in the military and I will always be grateful.
I think that the CCT is more geared for a younger generation that are trying to get ahead. I personally have around 8 years experience from the Marines, couple commercial labs and the contract lab I work at now. I also believed that it is geared for management because there aren't a lot of actual technical questions on the test. It mainly has to do with knowing the ISOs. They don't ask how to program a 8902 or corrected a flow rate. They ask when it's okay to release a cert or how to document data.
If you have PMEL schooling then you should always be able to get a job and you don't need the CCT, but I also don't see a reason not to advance yourself. I also don't see any reason to have any animosity towards other that get it.
Quote from: Duckbutta on 06-17-2009 -- 23:38:57
No, Griff, I haven't. Nor will I ever, just on principle. I don't need it.
I didn't think so, my impression from taking it was that it was designed by someone who had no interest in the actual, practical, application of metrology or calibration. It's like a math geek's dream test, lol. Before I took it I figured it was a way for ASQ to make a bit of money from 'certifying' body of knowledge, but it might be worth it if it helped put more emphasis on what calibrators actually do.
After taking it, I don't think the designers of the program have a clue what calibrators actually do and it is more of the same playing with numbers game that ASQ does with things like 6 sigma and lean manufacturing.
Very nice theoretically, but fairly useless in a lab setting. It would more appropriately be called a Certified Junior Metrology Technician test, as it definitely doesn't evaluate what a calibrator does on a day to day basis. Mainly because the entire thing is based of the books put out by a single ASQ author (Bucher) so the scope is pretty limited.
In any case, it' a good way to keep up on your obscure math skills, but I certainly wouldn't use it as an evaluation of a tech's bench capability.
That's why I wouldn't put the two in the same category. CCT is a knowledge quiz; PMEL is a school, its apples & oranges. I certainly would never have paid to take it, but it is an interesting insight on where some people think the emphasis should be. And in manufaturing, the Quality people are usually the ones who hold sway over the cal labs. It's good to know your foe.
And in manufaturing, the Quality people are usually the ones who hold sway over the cal labs. It's good to know your foe.
Griff I am in complete agreement with you. I don't think I need Sigma or Lean training to accomplish my job. However,my bosses think I do. Still resisting them though.
Quote from: griff61 on 06-18-2009 -- 09:12:07
Very nice theoretically, but fairly useless in a lab setting.
I think you put all six rounds in the 10 ring with your assessment Griff!
Quote from: Hippie on 06-18-2009 -- 10:31:56
And in manufaturing, the Quality people are usually the ones who hold sway over the cal labs. It's good to know your foe.
Griff I am in complete agreement with you. I don't think I need Sigma or Lean training to accomplish my job. However,my bosses think I do. Still resisting them though.
Good luck!
In the military there were officers who would think up dumb stuff for the troops to do so they could justify their position...in the civilian world they call them 6 Sigma Black Belts...
Quote from: Hippie on 06-18-2009 -- 10:31:56
In the military there were officers who would think up dumb stuff for the troops to do so they could justify their position...in the civilian world they call them 6 Sigma Black Belts...
And these "black belts" are making their way into the military world as well. The Army is eating this crap up.
They should just rename Lean to "Trying our best to convince the old farts to do stuff a better, more efficient way that may or may not save you 30 seconds once a week by cramming a crapload of data and piegraphs and bar graphs into a 3 hour powerpoint presentation that will break your printer if you ever decide to print it".
If anyone can apply the Lean process to my new name for Lean, please do, but in the meantime, let's just call Lean a bunch of crap invented to make someone money by "teaching" folks how to do what we already know how to do, make our business leaner and more efficient.
Kinda like A2LA if you ask me......... pay me and I will provide my logo that you can use and certify that the uncerts you list are correct, even if they are crap uncerts that my cousin Joe Bob could beat in his garage.
There is nothing wrong with becoming certified in your field. Engineers, nurses, lawyers, accountants all have exams they take to show they have knowledge and expertise in what they do.
I think it's wonderful that Kalrock show initiative to take the test and the knowledge to pass it. He paid attention. He deserves congratulations!!!!!
Yes, Kalrock does deserve reconition for his accomplisment. Congradulations Kalrock. However for myself, I don't want to be a manager. So tools I don't need I don't want. Sigma and Lean is not something I need in my toolbox. Peace Ya'll.
Quote from: Winterfire2008 on 06-19-2009 -- 00:21:57
There is nothing wrong with becoming certified in your field. Engineers, nurses, lawyers, accountants all have exams they take to show they have knowledge and expertise in what they do.
All we need now is a certification that actually reflects what we do. Which is actually a good reason for more PMEL grads to take it...but make a point of a detailed response to the questionnaire that the ASQ asks you to fill out once you've taken it. That way maybe it will change to reflect what WE think it should be.
In the meantime, it would be kind of silly to not get that raise or promotion if your employer is going to pay for it. If you're working in manufacturing or in a commercial lab, it certainly doesn't hurt to know the body of knowledge in the CCT. Nobody enjoys an audit more than a tech who can see the dumb questions coming and is prepared with the 'official' answer in the prescribed lingo, lol.
In Kalrock's case, not only does he have that, but he got 2 entities to pay him for the privilege, that's better than I did!
Hi guys,
I took this test in June and failed it. I've got 540, was short by 10 points. I study the CCT primer upside down. Can you guys recommend me of any books and material that can help me pass the test. I've seen a few test problems that does not come from the primer at all.
Thanks,
Raymond
The Metrology Handbook is probably a good book to study. You need to know how to use a calculator so that you don't have to spend a lot of time with the calculations. It definitively helps to have a good deal of experience so that if you can't find the answer to the question you will be able to make an educated guess. I hope you pass the test in Dec.
Quote from: griff61 on 06-19-2009 -- 07:42:19
Quote from: Winterfire2008 on 06-19-2009 -- 00:21:57
There is nothing wrong with becoming certified in your field. Engineers, nurses, lawyers, accountants all have exams they take to show they have knowledge and expertise in what they do.
All we need now is a certification that actually reflects what we do. Which is actually a good reason for more PMEL grads to take it...but make a point of a detailed response to the questionnaire that the ASQ asks you to fill out once you've taken it. That way maybe it will change to reflect what WE think it should be.
In the meantime, it would be kind of silly to not get that raise or promotion if your employer is going to pay for it. If you're working in manufacturing or in a commercial lab, it certainly doesn't hurt to know the body of knowledge in the CCT. Nobody enjoys an audit more than a tech who can see the dumb questions coming and is prepared with the 'official' answer in the prescribed lingo, lol.
In Kalrock's case, not only does he have that, but he got 2 entities to pay him for the privilege, that's better than I did!
I agree that the test holds very little merit. They will let any Joe Blow with some college and "calibration" experience take an open book test.
With that said, I took and passed the CCT. It in no way trumps my PMEL training, and to be honest, I felt a little dirty after taking it. My real problem with it came when a tech I was supervising at a UNION shop passed the test. In the real world, this tech wouldn't even be considered for position at a third-party cal house, but he worked in this calibration shop becuase management was scared of the union.
When he was allowed to test for and passed the CCT, it lost all value in my book. But in today's 'quality' driven workplace, my CCT, CQA, and CQT certs have all equated to significant chunk of change in my pocket.
You gotta go with the flow...
I wouldn't join any organization that would have me for a member.
I've heard that somewhere or read it before.
My guess is Groucho Marx. . .