ASQ CCT Results

griff61 · 06-17-2009 -- 23:30:55

Quote from: Duckbutta on 06-17-2009 -- 23:25:01
ASQ CCT will never trump Air Force PMEL experience. Period. In fact, at the lab where I work, you wouldn't even be considered for a job without military calibration experience. They tried it a few times because experienced PMEL techs are in short supply, and it just didn't work out. Now, they would rather have an open slot than fill it with someone who doesn't fit the criteria. ASQ CCT is a vehicle for electronics techs with no real metrology credentials to give them an air of legitimacy. There is no way that I would be half the technician that I am today without the benefit of working in an Air Force PMEL lab. You don't experience the same rate of technical growth in the commercial sector because the luxury of time needed to really understand what you are doing is in short supply. As someone said in a previous post, there is a HUGE difference between a Cal Tech and a Metrologist. I've worked for two different commercial calibration companies, and on the whole, the people with prior PMEL experience were definitely a cut above those without. Of course there are exceptions, but in general, I think most people on here will agree with my take on it.

Have you taken the CCT?

Duckbutta · 06-17-2009 -- 23:38:57

No, Griff, I haven't. Nor will I ever, just on principle. I don't need it.

CalLabSolutions · 06-18-2009 -- 01:54:33

Me being an ex-Army tech with 10 years of military OJT, I agree there is no training like the military training for metrology.

However.. I believe the military did a very good job of selecting the people where qualified to be metrologists. By and far the people who went through the training in the military where smarter than most. I can count on one hand the number of people in the field I meet who were knuckle heads. (and they were smart knuckle heads, just no common sense).

I believe this to be true because the military invested millions in the ASVAB test. And the test did an excellent job of vetting the people who where not qualified. When I came in the field the cut off General Technology (GT) score to be a metrologist was 125 while officer only needed a 110.

It would be great if we as employers could say.. Go take the ASVAB test and let me see your scores..

Hippie · 06-18-2009 -- 07:20:02

I wouldn't trade my PMEL training for anything. Best thing to happen to this ol country boy. Lowry graduate 1982. That training opened a lot of doors for me that otherwise, would have remained closed.

RichMojo · 06-18-2009 -- 08:02:39

I am a Lowry graduate of 1985. Have worked for the Navy - 12 years military, Army - 2. 5 yrs on Kwajalein, Air Force - 5 yrs contract & civil service, . 5 years Intercal writing automation procedures, 2. 5 years Royal Saudi Air Force. 1. 5 years commercial cal.

My company (USAF - DOD) got us a one week ASQ CCT refresher course to attend. While it was ok, it was no where near anything compared to the knowledge I have gain while going to Cal School at lowry or the experience I have gained while in the field.

Seriously, it was mostly about who is the governing body for this and stuff that is not really needed in the field.

One of our QAs was qualified and he thought it was great. Well. . . the ASQ CCT should NEVER trump Formal Military Calibration training, nor should it outweigh Experience.

My two Cents.

Mojo out!

Kalrock · 06-18-2009 -- 09:01:59

I agree that the CCT will never and should never replace actual experience. It will never trump military school. If I was a manager it wouldn't even be a question if one guy had 5 years military PMEL experience and another just had the CCT. The military experience will always be better. But having said that if a I want a senior tech and both applicants have roughly the same experience, but one has the CCT "in their hat" then it will probably give them a one up if both interview about the same. I loved the Marine Corp and I regret to this day getting out. They gave me one of the best jobs in the military and I will always be grateful.

I think that the CCT is more geared for a younger generation that are trying to get ahead. I personally have around 8 years experience from the Marines, couple commercial labs and the contract lab I work at now. I also believed that it is geared for management because there aren't a lot of actual technical questions on the test. It mainly has to do with knowing the ISOs. They don't ask how to program a 8902 or corrected a flow rate. They ask when it's okay to release a cert or how to document data.

If you have PMEL schooling then you should always be able to get a job and you don't need the CCT, but I also don't see a reason not to advance yourself. I also don't see any reason to have any animosity towards other that get it.

griff61 · 06-18-2009 -- 09:12:07

Quote from: Duckbutta on 06-17-2009 -- 23:38:57
No, Griff, I haven't. Nor will I ever, just on principle. I don't need it.

I didn't think so, my impression from taking it was that it was designed by someone who had no interest in the actual, practical, application of metrology or calibration. It's like a math geek's dream test, lol. Before I took it I figured it was a way for ASQ to make a bit of money from 'certifying' body of knowledge, but it might be worth it if it helped put more emphasis on what calibrators actually do.
After taking it, I don't think the designers of the program have a clue what calibrators actually do and it is more of the same playing with numbers game that ASQ does with things like 6 sigma and lean manufacturing.
Very nice theoretically, but fairly useless in a lab setting. It would more appropriately be called a Certified Junior Metrology Technician test, as it definitely doesn't evaluate what a calibrator does on a day to day basis. Mainly because the entire thing is based of the books put out by a single ASQ author (Bucher) so the scope is pretty limited.
In any case, it' a good way to keep up on your obscure math skills, but I certainly wouldn't use it as an evaluation of a tech's bench capability.
That's why I wouldn't put the two in the same category. CCT is a knowledge quiz; PMEL is a school, its apples & oranges. I certainly would never have paid to take it, but it is an interesting insight on where some people think the emphasis should be. And in manufaturing, the Quality people are usually the ones who hold sway over the cal labs. It's good to know your foe.

Hippie · 06-18-2009 -- 10:31:56

And in manufaturing, the Quality people are usually the ones who hold sway over the cal labs. It's good to know your foe.
Griff I am in complete agreement with you. I don't think I need Sigma or Lean training to accomplish my job. However,my bosses think I do. Still resisting them though.

OlDave · 06-18-2009 -- 12:05:49

Quote from: griff61 on 06-18-2009 -- 09:12:07
Very nice theoretically, but fairly useless in a lab setting.

I think you put all six rounds in the 10 ring with your assessment Griff!

griff61 · 06-18-2009 -- 16:57:48

Quote from: Hippie on 06-18-2009 -- 10:31:56
And in manufaturing, the Quality people are usually the ones who hold sway over the cal labs. It's good to know your foe.
Griff I am in complete agreement with you. I don't think I need Sigma or Lean training to accomplish my job. However,my bosses think I do. Still resisting them though.

Good luck!
In the military there were officers who would think up dumb stuff for the troops to do so they could justify their position...in the civilian world they call them 6 Sigma Black Belts...

CalibratorJ · 06-18-2009 -- 18:05:52

Quote from: Hippie on 06-18-2009 -- 10:31:56

In the military there were officers who would think up dumb stuff for the troops to do so they could justify their position...in the civilian world they call them 6 Sigma Black Belts...

And these "black belts" are making their way into the military world as well. The Army is eating this crap up.

They should just rename Lean to "Trying our best to convince the old farts to do stuff a better, more efficient way that may or may not save you 30 seconds once a week by cramming a crapload of data and piegraphs and bar graphs into a 3 hour powerpoint presentation that will break your printer if you ever decide to print it".

If anyone can apply the Lean process to my new name for Lean, please do, but in the meantime, let's just call Lean a bunch of crap invented to make someone money by "teaching" folks how to do what we already know how to do, make our business leaner and more efficient.

Kinda like A2LA if you ask me......... pay me and I will provide my logo that you can use and certify that the uncerts you list are correct, even if they are crap uncerts that my cousin Joe Bob could beat in his garage.

Winterfire2008 · 06-19-2009 -- 00:21:57

There is nothing wrong with becoming certified in your field. Engineers, nurses, lawyers, accountants all have exams they take to show they have knowledge and expertise in what they do.

I think it's wonderful that Kalrock show initiative to take the test and the knowledge to pass it. He paid attention. He deserves congratulations!!!!!

Hippie · 06-19-2009 -- 05:44:12

Yes, Kalrock does deserve reconition for his accomplisment. Congradulations Kalrock. However for myself, I don't want to be a manager. So tools I don't need I don't want. Sigma and Lean is not something I need in my toolbox. Peace Ya'll.

griff61 · 06-19-2009 -- 07:42:19

Quote from: Winterfire2008 on 06-19-2009 -- 00:21:57
There is nothing wrong with becoming certified in your field. Engineers, nurses, lawyers, accountants all have exams they take to show they have knowledge and expertise in what they do.

All we need now is a certification that actually reflects what we do. Which is actually a good reason for more PMEL grads to take it...but make a point of a detailed response to the questionnaire that the ASQ asks you to fill out once you've taken it. That way maybe it will change to reflect what WE think it should be.
In the meantime, it would be kind of silly to not get that raise or promotion if your employer is going to pay for it. If you're working in manufacturing or in a commercial lab, it certainly doesn't hurt to know the body of knowledge in the CCT. Nobody enjoys an audit more than a tech who can see the dumb questions coming and is prepared with the 'official' answer in the prescribed lingo, lol.

In Kalrock's case, not only does he have that, but he got 2 entities to pay him for the privilege, that's better than I did!

raykur · 08-07-2009 -- 04:49:34

Hi guys,

I took this test in June and failed it. I've got 540, was short by 10 points. I study the CCT primer upside down. Can you guys recommend me of any books and material that can help me pass the test. I've seen a few test problems that does not come from the primer at all.

Thanks,
Raymond