732A Fluke DC Voltage Standard

Started by mango, 08-28-2009 -- 22:51:02

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mango

08-28-2009 -- 22:51:02
Hello to all fellow PMEL troops,

Anyone ever see a problem with a 732A Fluke DC Voltage Standard where after you replace the four batteries, the IN CAL light still goes off in less than 6 hours when it's running on battery power?

Appreciate any feedback,

Mango

Bryan

#1
09-02-2009 -- 18:20:48
You did allow them to charge fully right?  24 Hours is wht it takes after a full discharge according to my old manual.

mango

#2
09-02-2009 -- 19:02:04
The batteries are new and fully charged.   After they become fully charged, the battery charge light goes out, which is normal.   

On the rear terminals where you can measure the voltage of the 4 batteries, I measured about 24. 5 V DC which is supposed to be adequate to keep the IN CAL light turned on when the 732A is not on ac power.   

Trouble still is the IN CAL light still goes out when I take the 732A off ac power.

The troubleshooting table in the manual does not cover this specific problem.   



mango

#3
09-11-2009 -- 18:33:07
Does the 732A get used much nowadays by anyone?  Is it just good to have as a backup?

HalAC

#4
09-11-2009 -- 21:02:14
Quote from: mango on 09-11-2009 -- 18:33:07
Does the 732A get used much nowadays by anyone?  Is it just good to have as a backup?

I personally use one about once or twice a week. Use them a lot with a 752A reference divider and a 720A Kelvin Varley divider when doing accurate DMM's.
"No matter where you go, There you are!"

Hawaii596

#5
09-14-2009 -- 10:55:01
I'll have to stop by this thread in a couple of months.  I'm involved in bringing a lot of things on line.  I have two 732A's and a 732B.  I'm trying to decide if I want to hot cal just one and make the two others comparison standards against it (kind of do a set of "standard cell" style intercomparisons), or if I should get all three cal'd.

I've been leaving them all plugged in, but I'm pretty sure at least one or more of them may have shot battery packs.  I haven't had much time to tinker on them yet (lots of other projects).  But since the topic point came up, thought I'd hit you up with some questions.

I'm little by little bringing my standards lab online.  My Guildline 9975 is out for repair at MI right now (the P.O. just got fully approved).  I have a 792A that had been in cal until a couple of years ago (also left powered up, just  has a DO NOT USE sticker on it).  I'm thinking of waiting till last to have that one cal'd.

The biggie for this month is bringing my vacuum system on line.  MKS PVS6D for anyone familiar with such.  It is running, and doing first cals on it now. 

Enough rambling - back to work.
"I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind."
Lord Kelvin (1824-1907)
from lecture to the Institute of Civil Engineers, 3 May 1883

BossyLars

#6
05-13-2010 -- 14:18:34
Hey guys,

I'm brand new here, maybe I introduce myself at an other section of this forum.  My mother tongue is Dutch, so I apologize for a bad English.

I work as 1st.  electrotechnical calibration engineer at a kind of a PMEL-lab.  As a matter of fact, the highest (standard) lab of our National Defense Forces.

There we still use 732A's as well as several 732B's.
All are very close to the National Lab of our Government.  And we're proud of that!

Beacuse of security reasons, I won't tell you much about all ins and outs of our standard lab, but I can tell someting about the equipment I've worked with.

Is this question about why using this old 732A standard still actual, or is this discussion closed or is my input not needed for other reasons? But if it is, just ask.

Kindly greeting from Europe.

purpmcrider

#7
07-21-2010 -- 11:14:14
This may be dated information, but I'm hearing that the GFX batteries if used in the 732A were junk and cause all sorts of weird problems.  The Genesis batteries are supposed to work well though.

Hawaii596

#8
08-03-2010 -- 10:39:14
I have a quick question regarding 732A batteries...  Anyone recently replace any and know the generic part number and vendor to buy from?  I have a whole set of 732A's that I'm in process of bringing on line in the coming months and want/need to put fresh batteries in prior to starting to start charting their performance.
"I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind."
Lord Kelvin (1824-1907)
from lecture to the Institute of Civil Engineers, 3 May 1883

Bryan

#9
08-03-2010 -- 12:03:35
GFX brand, part # NP4-6, was $50.75 ea. in Nov 2008 last time I checked.  Don't recall if I got them direct or through a distributor.
http://www.gfxpower.ca/images/pdf_spec/NP4-6.pdf

Hawaii596

#10
08-05-2010 -- 15:51:48
The subject matter in this is the same as in my Datron 4910 thread (at least my part of it).  So I'll be posting over there.
"I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind."
Lord Kelvin (1824-1907)
from lecture to the Institute of Civil Engineers, 3 May 1883

metrol12

#11
08-20-2010 -- 11:08:55
The GFX Batteries work fine.   I have 3 732A's with complemetary standards.   The 732A is a far better standard than the 732B.   

The reason is the 732A's were hand built and trimmed for precision operation as a stand alone reference.   The 732B's are not built to as high of standards and normally require 4 to make a 734A systems to be able to use as a reference system.   These are alot noisier than a 732A.   They came about as a way for Fluke to cut manufacturing costs and increase profits.

Any Fluke standards guy can attest the 732A is good working order is a far better choice than a 732B.

Hawaii596

#12
08-22-2010 -- 13:06:45
As I have an entire "library" (so to speak) of them, I'm going to plot them and see which ones do the best over time (4 each 732A's, 1 each 732B, 1 each Datron 4910 with four 10V outputs).

Since everyone is so curious (or not), BATTERY UPDATE - I have found a company in Hong Kong that actually manufacturers all three battery types needed for the three models above.  I'm in process of figuring out how to buy them and have them all shipped.  What clued me was reading a high resolution PDF (looked to be made from an Autocad drawing) of one of the battery types from a company in Oregon.  This pretty looking battery was made in Taiwan.  Lo and behold I figured out that virtually all batteries (pretty much) are made in Asia, and get American labels put on them.  And none of them ever go obsolete, they just stop being available from American companies.  So I am in ongoing communications with a battery OEM in Hong Kong.  The 6V 2AH 2" x 2" x 3" battery that I needed 15 each of for my Datron 4910 was going to cost me $38.50 each (way too much).  So after some educational research time, I found a company in Hong Kong selling them for $3.50 each (which seems to be a normal ratio (Asian OEM to US price ratio).  I looked through their product listing and they also carry the other two types of batteries.  So for about10% of the US cost (hopefully) I'll get the batteries direct shipped from Hong Kong.  They are not American made anyway.

It's been very educational learning some of the ins and outs of importing from Asia.  This is still in progress, so we'll see how it all turns out.
"I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind."
Lord Kelvin (1824-1907)
from lecture to the Institute of Civil Engineers, 3 May 1883

Bryan

#13
09-24-2010 -- 19:04:24
I'm curious if anyone has trending data for thier 732A.  I have one that has had pretty regular testing at Fluke and determined it is steadily increasing in voltage at a rate of 6.6 nanovolt/day, a second one with less history looks to be increasing about 6.3 nanovolts/day but it's still to early IMO to say for sure.  Just curious if this is consistent with what others have observed.
Thanks

Hawaii596

#14
09-28-2010 -- 13:16:51
I've been learning about the batteries for the 732A, 732B, Datron 4910, and also the 792A AC standard.  There is a huge mark up on these.  They are virtually all made in Asia (mostly China), and markup on price is disgustingly high.  One vendor wanted $38.50 each for the ones for the Datron 4910 (which takes 15 each).  I bought them direct from the factory for $1.48 each (approximately).  I DON'T recommend this method, as it is a real issue.  But the cost of $38.50 each made me want to do it this way this time.  I ended up paying less than about $2.00 each for the others.

My recommendation is that if buying batteries, there is not much difference between vendors so long as you get the correct mAH, etc.  The big difference is in price.  The exact battery for the 732A bought from China was about $2.00 each.  We looked up the OEM pricing, and it was over $50 each.  I don't believe there is that much difference in quality.  There are only a hand full of factories that could make these batteries.  And for most of the more common sizes (including the one for the 732A / 792A), there are numerous factories that produce the exact battery, along with multiple sales companies in Asia that sell under their brand batteries made at one factory.  This includes places like GFX, Power-Sonic, etc.  I am not bad-mouthing those brand names, just saying that there is a lot of mark up in all the brands and they are all about the same.  Enough said.
"I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind."
Lord Kelvin (1824-1907)
from lecture to the Institute of Civil Engineers, 3 May 1883
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