Why does everyone think the calibration techs are EE's??

[USMCPMEL]

I do not have my degree in engineering IF I did I would be working somewhere else making alot more money per hour. No I can not explain to you why when you put 20 milliamps into 3 different meters why you get 3 different readings ( Other than the tolerances of the meters being different). I am sure it has something to do with the internal resistance and the load put on the system by the meter. Other than that it is above my paygrade. Sorry had to vent anyone else have these or related issues?

[CalibratorJ]

Only every day!

"I don't know exactly what happens when I push that button (ok, partially a lie), but I do know that when I push that button it does this and reads this and voila, everything is right as rain again!"

My favorite is calculating uncertainties...... they wrote the damn formula, yet question why and when I use it...... stating that my "math must be wrong".....

[mrrob007]

Why does everyone think we are engineers? Easy, when we get asked a question, we have a logical, easy to understand answer. Ever ask an EE a question that you know the answer to? Try it sometime, it's good for a laugh.

I live by the credo, the only good engineer is one that has done tech work.

(Currently pursuing an EE)

[CalLabSolutions]

I remember when I joined the Army, you had to have a GT score of 120 to get into this field. While to be an officer you only needed 110. 

I wonder what the GT score would be to for an EE?

Mike Schwartz

[jimmyc]

I do not have my degree in engineering IF I did I would be working somewhere else making alot more money per hour. No I can not explain to you why when you put 20 milliamps into 3 different meters why you get 3 different readings ( Other than the tolerances of the meters being different). I am sure it has something to do with the internal resistance and the load put on the system by the meter. Other than that it is above my paygrade. Sorry had to vent anyone else have these or related issues?

so you did know the reason.

[Hawaii596]

All I know (as someone who has been a tech for decades and now is periodically involved in hiring techs) is that I would take a PMEL school graduate in an instant over a BSEE degree hands down (I graduated from Lowry AFB PMEL - USN version - in 1984, by the way).  I have even had circumstances where I took a PMEL grad over a BSEE.

[mrrob007]

I remember when I joined the Army, you had to have a GT score of 120 to get into this field. While to be an officer you only needed 110. 

I wonder what the GT score would be to for an EE?

Mike Schwartz

85....

[scottbp]

Yeah, over where I work, we turned away a guy who claimed to have an EE degree, but couldn't read the color codes on a resistor...

FWIW, I do have a BSEE, but I was working in a technical field long before I went to college (served in the Army for 6 years after high school), and then I worked at a commercial cal lab full time for a couple years prior to enrolling and then part time all the while I was going to college... So why am I still working at the same cal lab? We do have a couple engineering positions, so they promoted me from a technician slot when another engineer left to go work at a NASA cal lab...

[Ronin]

        I can say that in the case of say. . . the owner of the meter who asks sarcastically why they get three different readings when they allow 20 mA to flow through, they are often repeating the last phrase they heard before they went out the door of the work center on the way to lab (i. e.  they really didn't know why they were getting three different readings in three different meters).
        Also, I think PMEL techs are so often mistaken for BSEE folks because we (PMEL folk) often care deeply about the work, research the answers to the questions relentlessly because we really want to know, and because we look just as cool in our used beater 4-cylinders as the BSEE folks do in their Porsche (lol, shameless one there. . . I knew a BSEE who drove an old CRX that was pretty cool).   
         Perhaps the only difference between us all is that we have different titles and had different lives that led us to those titles.   These days, If an equipment owner asks me why the meters all read something different, I carefully explain that our boss threatened to outsource our jobs to China last week, and so I have to hurry back into the lab with my head down.

[Hawaii596]

I actually did go to the Engineering Review Board at Motorola back in the 90's.  I had to do a paper and present it to technical management.  And they awarded me with an Engineer grade and respect, as I had demonstrated an engineering level of knowledge.  I've always thought of myself as a closet physicist.  I even had a friend with a PhD in Organic Chemistry tell me that some research I did on thermocouple behavior in high temperature environment was Doctorate material (and in an email a number of years ago, a person at NIST told me the same thing).

One of my great managers at Motorola Semiconductor told me years ago, when evaluating my technical abilities,  that he has never believed that a degree (or lack thereof) tells him how good a person is at a job.  Having a degree in his estimation (I believe he had a Masters Degree) is only evidence of the persons ability to learn.  Having a degree doesn't tell how good of a technician you are.  It doesn't make you better or worse; and on the other side, NOT having a degree is the same thing.

I wrote a 40 question assessment that we give to new technician candidates.  We have had degreed individuals (BSEE) who did not do better than non-degreed people.  That's because the assessment was specifically written for technician skills, not engineer skills.  It asked very basic questions that any technician  with experience in the wide array of metrology disciplines we utilize here would know.  Not difficult questions, but specific questions (kind of "dummy" questions designed to see if the person has actually worked in those areas).  I might ask for example (not an actual question, just a similar example): "if connecting an RF signal from a generator to a spectrum analyzer with a frequency of 26 GHz), which connector type would be most appropriate? a.) double banana b.) single banana c.) BNC  d.) 3.5 mm.

I won't insult anyones intelligence by giving the answer.  But it's a dummy question if you work in that area, and if you don't have experience in RF/microwave, you won't know. 

Some basic things you know because you know how to do your job.

[PMEL]

I have been in Metrology for almost 16 years now and have the absolute pleasure working alongside some of the most intelligent people I have ever met. I also have the miss fortune of working alongside some of the smartest dumb people also known as Engineers.  I think it comes down to the way true Metrologist look at life. We have a way of taking in objectives not just are jobs and analyzing the best way to accomplish a goal. I taught myself programming from the ground up then got my Master's degree in it all the time biting my tongue to not tell the instructors that they are doing it wrong.  I do not know a lot of people that can honestly say they enjoy going to work every day like I do. I love my job and the challenge it poses to me on a daily basis.

[the renegade]

what many people fail to realize is most Pmel personnel are more intelligent than many EEs.  As when I worked for GM(General Motors) a EE would develop a new test idea and we would have build it and design testing to ensure it would work and have a correct standard ratio.

 

[Smokey]

Ok just so I am clear this is only in my very humble opinion...
I think we PMEL Folk tend to toot our own horns a little loudly at times! Yes I have met a few engineers that definitely did not measure up against many of us CAL School guys, good techs that is b/c we have our fair share of bad techs or better put WTF? How did that tech get through!

There are good engineers and bad engineers just like good techs and bad techs, plain and simple and to simply generalize such as "what many people fail to realize is most Pmel personnel are more intelligent than many EEs. " is where I think we toot that horn a little too loudly! It is not a comparison of intelligence and nor should it ever be as I have met business people with far more electronic knowledge and skill then some of the PMEL techs and Engineers I have had the misfortunate priviledge of working around...

I think the problem lies in theoretical versus practical application...many engineers only deal in the theoretical where in our career field as technicians we need to deal more in practical ie... "EE would develop a new test idea and we would have build it and design testing to ensure it would work and have a correct standard ratio" So they come up with a theory we then test the practical and real world application viability. There are engineers out there beleive it or not that do quite well in practical applications, you just need to hire one for that reason instead of just hiring a degree.

The problem imo is that many people that are doing the hiring are bafoons! They hire a position for a Metrologist when what they actually want is an Engineer with some Metrology background or they hire an Engineer when what they want is a Metrologist with extensive cal experience, uncertainty analysis experience as in building a whole uncertainty budget not just doing individual uncertainties (which is what most PMEL guys in military labs do,not that they can't do more but that is all that is required at least in a lot of cases). Doing an Uncertainty budget from cradle to grave is a whole different animal than substituting one standard and ensuring the individual uncertainties crossover.

Many people simply hire a degree, they do not interview and hire someone that is specifically skilled for what they need they simply say lets get an engineer in here or basically lets hire a degreed individual.

There are plenty of jobs out there filled with engineers doing what PMEL school grads could and should be doing, in turn there are a few PMEL guys out there trying to do jobs that a skilled engineer would be better suited. Let's not pretend that anyone can be an engineer just as I think it takes a special kind of individual to be a good PMEL tech.

Stop hiring degrees and hire people with the proper skill set to do the job....sometimes that will require a good PMEL guy, sometimes that will require a good Engineer...Engineering is such a broad field that many engineering disciplines just are not suited for the metrology world(or one discipline does not crossover very well may be a better way to put it) or for example... in some cases hirng an engineer to do programming of test equipment yet having no experience with the TMDE he/she is trying to write a program for thus the program has to be re-written once the techs get a hold of it and say this doesn't work...then that engineer get's called an idiot by a tech and the tech feels superior when in actuality the engineer doing the programming my have done some really good programming as in (the code was really well written, no spaghetti code please) but simply the proper standards were not used, there was no flow to the program as in setups, doing test back to back for minimal connection change, minimal standard swapping, proper standard substitution or even knowing what standards that should be used in the program or even writing a program with multiple standards capability just to name a few.... There is a multitude of reasons that the wrong engineer is hired for the job but the biggest reason is the hiring manager not doing due diligence and hiring someone who is not just qualified by having a degree but that they are qualified by having the specific skill set needed to do whatever application you need them to do. Especially in the contract world many hire degrees simply to boast on their contract how many degrees they have to boast overall qualifications.

You don't need an enginer with RF Design background to write cal procedures, nor should you hire a PMEL guy (in most cases b/c I am sure there are one or two of you or even a few,lol quite capabale before the whining starts) to do a job requiring reverse engineering or RF design experience.

So as long winded as I am... hire the right person for the job and then it should not matter whether he/or she is an engineer, PMEL tech, degree or no degree... because sometimes that bad engineer or bad tech is simply misplaced according to the application they are trying to do....then again yes some are just booksmart and have no place in real world application!

Now enjoy critiquing any mispellings or trying to debate how wrong I am or what an idiot I am b/c quite simpley put...your opinion does not matter, only the opinion of the person who signs that check! PEACE.. Oh and ScottBP....is this the same scott from Ft. Wayne? If so IM me, this is Brian....

[flew-da-coup]

Ok just so I am clear this is only in my very humble opinion...
I think we PMEL Folk tend to toot our own horns a little loudly at times! Yes I have met a few engineers that definitely did not measure up against many of us CAL School guys, good techs that is b/c we have our fair share of bad techs or better put WTF? How did that tech get through!

There are good engineers and bad engineers just like good techs and bad techs, plain and simple and to simply generalize such as "what many people fail to realize is most Pmel personnel are more intelligent than many EEs. " is where I think we toot that horn a little too loudly! It is not a comparison of intelligence and nor should it ever be as I have met business people with far more electronic knowledge and skill then some of the PMEL techs and Engineers I have had the misfortunate priviledge of working around...

I think the problem lies in theoretical versus practical application...many engineers only deal in the theoretical where in our career field as technicians we need to deal more in practical ie... "EE would develop a new test idea and we would have build it and design testing to ensure it would work and have a correct standard ratio" So they come up with a theory we then test the practical and real world application viability. There are engineers out there beleive it or not that do quite well in practical applications, you just need to hire one for that reason instead of just hiring a degree.

The problem imo is that many people that are doing the hiring are bafoons! They hire a position for a Metrologist when what they actually want is an Engineer with some Metrology background or they hire an Engineer when what they want is a Metrologist with extensive cal experience, uncertainty analysis experience as in building a whole uncertainty budget not just doing individual uncertainties (which is what most PMEL guys in military labs do,not that they can't do more but that is all that is required at least in a lot of cases). Doing an Uncertainty budget from cradle to grave is a whole different animal than substituting one standard and ensuring the individual uncertainties crossover.

Many people simply hire a degree, they do not interview and hire someone that is specifically skilled for what they need they simply say lets get an engineer in here or basically lets hire a degreed individual.

There are plenty of jobs out there filled with engineers doing what PMEL school grads could and should be doing, in turn there are a few PMEL guys out there trying to do jobs that a skilled engineer would be better suited. Let's not pretend that anyone can be an engineer just as I think it takes a special kind of individual to be a good PMEL tech.

Stop hiring degrees and hire people with the proper skill set to do the job....sometimes that will require a good PMEL guy, sometimes that will require a good Engineer...Engineering is such a broad field that many engineering disciplines just are not suited for the metrology world(or one discipline does not crossover very well may be a better way to put it) or for example... in some cases hirng an engineer to do programming of test equipment yet having no experience with the TMDE he/she is trying to write a program for thus the program has to be re-written once the techs get a hold of it and say this doesn't work...then that engineer get's called an idiot by a tech and the tech feels superior when in actuality the engineer doing the programming my have done some really good programming as in (the code was really well written, no spaghetti code please) but simply the proper standards were not used, there was no flow to the program as in setups, doing test back to back for minimal connection change, minimal standard swapping, proper standard substitution or even knowing what standards that should be used in the program or even writing a program with multiple standards capability just to name a few.... There is a multitude of reasons that the wrong engineer is hired for the job but the biggest reason is the hiring manager not doing due diligence and hiring someone who is not just qualified by having a degree but that they are qualified by having the specific skill set needed to do whatever application you need them to do. Especially in the contract world many hire degrees simply to boast on their contract how many degrees they have to boast overall qualifications.

You don't need an enginer with RF Design background to write cal procedures, nor should you hire a PMEL guy (in most cases b/c I am sure there are one or two of you or even a few,lol quite capabale before the whining starts) to do a job requiring reverse engineering or RF design experience.

So as long winded as I am... hire the right person for the job and then it should not matter whether he/or she is an engineer, PMEL tech, degree or no degree... because sometimes that bad engineer or bad tech is simply misplaced according to the application they are trying to do....then again yes some are just booksmart and have no place in real world application!

Now enjoy critiquing any mispellings or trying to debate how wrong I am or what an idiot I am b/c quite simpley put...your opinion does not matter, only the opinion of the person who signs that check! PEACE.. Oh and ScottBP....is this the same scott from Ft. Wayne? If so IM me, this is Brian....

Wow, Well put!

[spanishfly25]

In a way we are Engineers.   Calibration engineers and we have to learn as much as an engineer. the only think we are lacking is the diploma