Status of Kirtland PMEL

[CalibratorJ]

No insult intended but the civil service labs have not performed that well since having these contracts awarded. 

If I am not mistaken, a lot of civilian labs (at least in the AF) were completely contracted out, with only a few remaining solely civilian. If I were a civilian in one of the remaining labs, I would have spent a lot of time pondering "Gee, are we next to get contracted out?".

Hopefully, the AF, Army, and Navy have learned their lesson with contracting out PMELs and will steer away from it in the future. I doubt it, but hey, a guy can dream, right? I am not saying that it isn't a smart move, ok, well maybe I am.

As far as a mix of civilian and military being in the same lab, I don't understand why they ALL aren't like that anymore, to include each service's respective Primary lab. It only makes sense as it opens up new duty locations and it sets those service members up for success when they either ETS or retire since they could possibly have worked at all the different levels of calibration, instead of a field support lab doing simple "follow the book" cals.

Anyhow, sorry for going off on a tangent.

[Mr.Steve]

@ Calibrator, with regard to your quote as civil service labs having not performed well, do you have any data to substantiate your claim?  If you refer back to my comments about Kirtland, their hands were pretty much tied behind their backs with very little support.  Even without the upcoming seven new hires, I would lay down one months pay and say Kirtlands average work experience exceeds 20 years per technician.   I'll take that anytime verses, let's for say an all military lab.   It's not about work performance, it's all about having to do less with less, not do more with less.  It finally had to break for the bean counters to realize the situation and authorize more bodies.  This process has been ongoing for almost 7 years since the over influx of equipment to the lab via AFRL.  I can go on and on...but the bottom line is, Kirtland is on it's way back, with or without the military bodies.

[PMEL Whore]

I agree Mr. Steve!  You can't tar all the labs with the same brush.  Not all the contract or civil service labs are bad, as a matter of fact some of the best operating labs are contracted.  Most of the techs working at the contract labs are seperated/retired AF PMEL anyway.  There are underperforming military labs as well, there are also some poorly performing contract labs.  Good Luck to Kirtland!

[CalibratorJ]

Mr. Steve, sorry, I think you misunderstood me, I did not say Civil Service labs were underperforming. I was quoting obp42 and stating why that MAY have been an issue, if that were indeed the case, which I didn't say it was.

I'm all for Civil Service labs (I work in one myself), with an added mix of green suiters, or whatever color they are wearing this year.

Any lab can underperform, just like any 1 section of a lab can underperform and make the entire lab look bad (at least in their customers' eyes), whether civil service, contract, or military.

As far as civil service vs contract, I think the tipping point is the fact that civil service can change processes and improve things, while contracts are very very strict in what you can and can't do. So, even though a contractor may be retired or exmilitary, they still cannot improve a process or procedure unless their statement of work specifically says so. That might not hurt your regular lab, but at higher levels, you are constantly (or should be) improving your processes and procedures.......

[PMEL Whore]

Not sure if you've ever worked in a contract lab, doesn't sound like it, I have worked in 4 for 6 different contractors and the contract is no where near that limiting.  Basically all that is covered is production and quality, they are the 2 biggies, there are a few other things, like maintaining certification, but for the most part it just references 00-20-14 and you have to have your own quality manual etc anyway so you can change things to make your processes better anytime you want.

[Broken_Wings]

Oh come on you Whore you know the Robins process at the very least can't be worth a hoot. There were many a pages of negative comments about it before your or my time here.  Top 10 Posters #1 and #7 . #1 has moved on though. Besides how in any of the AFMC IIA labs where there is one certification and more than likely only one recognized broken process. (sorry that doesn't make sense lost my train of thought)

[Martin]

Just keep in mind the technicians in contract labs are usually getting a better wage rate than the technicians that are civil service...

[OlDave]

Just keep in mind the technicians in contract labs are usually getting a better wage rate than the technicians that are civil service...

That's an interesting observation. When WPAFB went contract in '98 I was offered about a 20% reduction in pay and an even harsher reduction in benefits.

I heard they seemed surprised when I didn't report to work the first day.

[PMEL Whore]

Just keep in mind the technicians in contract labs are usually getting a better wage rate than the technicians that are civil service...

That's an interesting observation. When WPAFB went contract in '98 I was offered about a 20% reduction in pay and an even harsher reduction in benefits.

I heard they seemed surprised when I didn't report to work the first day.

Probably not now that most  of the contract labs have unionized.  I will say that how much money you get per hour doesn't preclude you from doing a good job and performing good cals.  Remember in a lot of cases calibration is key to a person's life.  Most people are at the lab they are at for reasons other than the money, family etc.  If you don't like the money you get where you are, there are options available to you, but crappy work isn't one of them.

I used to have a boss, many of you did that said "Bombs on Target and Integrity begin here".  Maybe a bit corney but a truer statement has never been said.

[Broken_Wings]

Can we get the topic split? I think the question has been answered and we are now wandering. I know many of us probably have ADD. Alcohol Deficiency Disorder. ooh shiny.

[yonker08]

Just keep in mind the technicians in contract labs are usually getting a better wage rate than the technicians that are civil service...

That's an interesting observation. When WPAFB went contract in '98 I was offered about a 20% reduction in pay and an even harsher reduction in benefits.

I heard they seemed surprised when I didn't report to work the first day.

Probably not now that most  of the contract labs have unionized.  I will say that how much money you get per hour doesn't preclude you from doing a good job and performing good cals.  Remember in a lot of cases calibration is key to a person's life.  Most people are at the lab they are at for reasons other than the money, family etc.  If you don't like the money you get where you are, there are options available to you, but crappy work isn't one of them.



I would be surprised that most of the contract labs are unionized. The ones I have been involved with have not been. Gee Dave they were cutting me about 50% when they took over at W-P. After about 14 years they are now paying what we made when it went contract. 

[obp42]

@ Calibrator, with regard to your quote as civil service labs having not performed well, do you have any data to substantiate your claim?  If you refer back to my comments about Kirtland, their hands were pretty much tied behind their backs with very little support.  Even without the upcoming seven new hires, I would lay down one months pay and say Kirtlands average work experience exceeds 20 years per technician.   I'll take that anytime verses, let's for say an all military lab.   It's not about work performance, it's all about having to do less with less, not do more with less.  It finally had to break for the bean counters to realize the situation and authorize more bodies.  This process has been ongoing for almost 7 years since the over influx of equipment to the lab via AFRL.  I can go on and on...but the bottom line is, Kirtland is on it's way back, with or without the military bodies.

Mr. Steve,

Like I said no insult intended about the MEO labs (civil service) not doing that well.  My intention was not to lump them all together.  I don't know anything about Kirtland and how it is run and definitely wouldn't pass judgement on a fellow calibrator.  My experience with civil service labs was when I was active duty and in AMC.  MAC for us old timers.  We had to send manning assists to Andrews, Scott and Otis ANGB.  Prior to my arrival we sent people to no hope Pope.  I know there are good and bad in all labs whether contract, military or civil service.  Andrews and Scott have since been turned over to contract.  I also know there have been some contractors that have underperformed.   I personally like the idea of a mix of civil service and military.  Probably wouldn't like the pay cut I would have to take but I would enjoy working with the younger/new airmen.  I think it is beneficial for them to work with some of the old timers.  I know it was for me when I was SrA.  I learned a lot from the old guys.

[McDobber]

Hello all.  I was a G.I. at the Kirtland PMEL, and now I work there in Civil Service.

We are now getting a lot of support that was lacking so that we can get the lab back in the condition that it should be.   We are all working hard to make the improvements neccesary to be a Certified Lab again.   The G.I.s we are getting are very welcome.   

I believe labs that are a blend of Civil Service and G.I.s are the best model for serveral reasons. I have seen it work well before.  I believe it will work well again here at Kirtland.

[B-rad 4d]

Well just found out Friday I am heading to Kirtland. I hope it is as good as Im told it is. Ill let every one know in January when i get there.

[transistor86]

Hey B-rad 4d

I heard through the rumor mill that Kirtland failed their last couple of audits and is going through a revamp. Who is running Kirtland now? Is it contract or being run under military supervision now? I have considered going civil service for the retirement and benefits to go in conjunction with my prior service as an airman? How would I go about applying? Are there any positions left? If so, would they be on usajobs?